Grievous's punches dent starfighter hulls and we have seen Vader punch people before. Mace. @shootingnova: Also, I know this is an old post I'm replying to but. Vader is thus a far more formidable foe on Bespin than he was against Ben Kenobi on the Death Star. Mace let him go.". Mace has said some questionable things before as well like Depa being a better duelist than him. Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Well Vader has Superior Scaling, and Force feats compared to Mace. Vader's strength in the Force exceeds him markedly. Vader being superior to a weaker Kar than the one Mace could at will vastly eclipse through Vaapad will not help him here. and it supported by his right hand man who works very closely with George Lucas stated that Vader would beat Post ROTS Yoda. And Kenobi wanted him to kill him either way. Yes he is George Lucas stated he he above him and would have killed ROTS Sidious. Fundamental to Vader's growth was the desire to overthrow his Master. "Believed by many Jedi to be on par with Master Yoda in his skills with the lightsaber. The character is a primary antagonist in the original trilogy and a primary protagonist in the prequel trilogy. 'Let's see the impression my boot makes on your face.' Mace had him trapped against the Ark dog, once the Ark dog moves away Vastor is able to retreat and recover. To use Vaapad now, out here, was incredibly dangerous -- almost as dangerous as not using Vaapad. We've already learned Hayden Christensen will be reprising the role of Darth Vader in that series, so bringing back Jackson's Mace Windu would be icing on the cake for prequel fans. His true power comes from scaling and accolades. Yoda was struggling heavily with Amp Dooku who is more powerful than Base Dark side Dooku, who made Yoda Struggle. I hated this stage in Battlefront 2. http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602, Star Wars: The Last Battle, Vanity Fair Magazine, 2005. Almost Killed Him: Cylo. Padawan level, if that. Against Mace Windu, whose entire fighting style is designed around fighting Darksiders, Anakin isn't overpowering zilch. It should be worth noting that Chewbacca is supposed to be small for his species. However, the numerous tragedies he suffered during his service to the Jedi Order in the Clone Wars took their toll on Skywalker, making the young knight desperate to find a way to protect his lover Padme Amidala. But it doesn't change my point. 'Impressed yet?' A cautious and wary individual, he was opposed to Anakin Skywalker's acceptance into the Jedi Order and was doubtful of th… Vastor's mighty arms spasmed and dropped limply to his sides. Vader, though Mace makes him work for it. Suffering had birthed insight. A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council. What’s the tension going into it? SAY “WHAT” ONE … 4-lucas 2005 commentary rolling stones the cult of Vader interview. But they did state if Anakin's legs never got cut off he would've been sooooo much more powerful. I quote: ''This was Vaapad's ultimate test. He’s been in the desert discovering who he is, really evolving as a character. And when asked, Matt Martin said he would bet on RotS Kenobi over Ben Kenobi: https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1008077670393901056. Mace Windu wins! The thrill. "there *non* canon sources" Yeah, you're right here I was wrong to say that but G-canon still holds higher legitimacy. E.G., Anakin has more raw power than Obi-Wan, but the latter has a greater knowledge of the Force. Whereas most lightsabers are either blue, green, or red, the purple lightsabers stand out as a noted exception to the pretty standard rules of Star Wars . To add on to what you said Mace was able to react and defend himself against a force push from Palpatine whilst snapped out of Vaapad kind of cementing his status as a tier 8 bordering 9 compared to the other tier 8s. " That’s where his life went wrong. Yes he is George Lucas stated he he above him and would have killed ROTS Sidious. Darth Vader beat the Emperor in the end, using one of his own tactics he witnessed decades before with Mace Windu. Anakin is just a better saber fighter plain and simple. Some version of this showdown was foreseen by Jedi Grand Master Yoda during his experience in the Dark Side Cave on Dagobah towards the end of the Clone Wars. vader wins. And why are you talking about the inconsistencies of the novel ? ", Mace Windu was considered his[Yoda] equal in terms of ability, insight, and command...Windu understood that the best outcome of a battle is to win without ever striking a single blow-a clear lesson in the measured application of restraint...Only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. The sheer okay-why-not-let's-fight. However, the concept art that stands out the most is, without question, Darth Mace Windu. Cylo was a master of combining electronics and technology with the Force. "Both Mace and Agen Kolar have said this, because they're working from the PoV that Anakin genuinely soloed Dooku" Still Anakin is supposedly = to the power he achieved in his rage amp against Dooku at that point in time which could be near Yoda. Mace tried to follow up and threw the kitchen sink at Vastor but younger man was too resilient and soon regained the momentum. In some sense, it was survival of the fittest. Vader has no shortage of feats fighting master level opponents. Vader isn't all Anakin could be but he's more than or at least equal to how Anakin was. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Changes nothing. Sidious views Vader>Amp Dooku>Base Dooku. Source: Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, only indication that he lose his ability to overthrow the emperor not a clue of actual overall power fam, besides the statement of You gotta be yoda or mace to face sidious what are other sources that put mace at the same level as palps that are backed by C canon source material? You've got to remember how far we've come from the character when he was Anakin. Anakin scaling works in Windu's favor I'm afraid not Vader's, same goes for Sidious. If we go by George Lucas Updated Canon before he sold his rights...Vader in force powers is above ROTS Anakin. Mace Windu wins! as well as The second most powerful person under George Lucas supporting his idea saying Vader would beat Post ROTS Yoda. Fight takes place in the Sundari Royal Palace. Dooku isn't 80% of ROTS Sidious, it accepted that Dooku is around 70% of ROTS Sidious. Mace has about another dozen of these quotes putting him up there with Yoda. But what he fell upon was Mace's fist, driven upward into his solar plexus by the combined power of the Force and nearly fifty years of Jedi combat training. Especially if the big man is younger and more ferocious. The lor pelek sprang sideways, diving away. like always people then to misunderstood the entire quote the reason becuase lucas stated that its was becuase vader,dooku and maul were failures that do not post a threat anymore to palpatine it literally states it right there. Yes. Mace got his hand chopped off, then failed to tank ROTS sheev lightning. He couldn't do the same when Vastor was crushing the life out of him in a bear hug. Mace stomps HARD. But Vastor must have felt it coming; he pitched forward, rolling with the punch so that it flipped him end for end. His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. @americanspeeddemon: I will say Vader was a lot better with the force than Anakin, because of the fact that he was crippled and couldn't move like he used to, Though I do believe Anakin would've been just as powerful in the force with practice. Also if you're going to argue that 'Anakin's raw power is evenly matched by Obi-Wan's technique' what technique exactly? It is categorised under the Legends Canon. Vader has a slower fighting style but he is by no means slow especially in reactions. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. Star Wars creator George Lucas has collectively referred to the first six episodic films of the franchise as "the tragedy of Darth Vader".. Although a lot of people consider Vader a low 9 so it depends. Every design is as interesting as one would expect, such as Sith Luke and Obi-Wan donned in black with pale skin and dark eyes, along with redeemed and uninjured versions of Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker. I… Powered by treachery, the Sith Master–apprentice relationship was always a dangerous game. I discuss who I think might come out on top. A) That's literally the same writer who wrote Shatterpoint, B) Both Mace and Agen Kolar have said this, because they're working from the PoV that Anakin genuinely soloed Dooku, something Yoda and Mace have repeatedly failed to do. '', ''Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. He would be stomped by early-war Ventress, much less Vader. @lord_tenebrous: ok then memory failed me this time too long since i read the novel maybe like 3 years ago, why do you think its not legitimate material? ''He stared at his reflection a long time. Yes he does, as per George Lucas stated ROTS Suit Vader is 80% of ROTS Sidious full power. George Lucas stated Suit Vader in ROTS was 80% of ROTS Full powers. I DARE YOU! @americanspeeddemon: Sorry, in my opinion Ahsoka isn't very good. But Vader's saber combat also got affected. And was significantly worse than Anakin's. He’s not that young brash kid that went into a fight with Maul out of anger for the fact his master was killed. He landed in perfect balance and sprang again, straight up; the kick Mace had aimed at his kidneys only grazed his calf muscle.". Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. Mace is not vaguely around Dooku's level. Mace has also defeated Sora Bulq with ease at the end of their duel and is described as moving faster than a blaster bolt in Jedi Tales issue 13. And he beat Maul easier than he had ever done before showing his improvement. Vader has better strength feats than Grievous. Darth Sidious was always stronger than Vader, which is why he ruled over him for almost 20 years and turned him into the Sith Lord he was. Standing toe to toe, the top of Mace's head barely came to the level of Vastor's chin, and you could have tucked Mace's whole thick-muscled upper body inside Vastor's chest with room to spare. @deutschkurzhaar: old obi wan was younger than count dooku, qui gon, yoda, sidious. He has since retracted that idea, and sources verbatim states that Vader is Sidious most powerful Apprentice. Twin Suns was WIS+CIS. Mace stayed with him, pinning him to the akk's flank, fists whirling through Vaapad flurries, striking not to disable or to kill, but instead to hurt: stinging flicks to soft tissue, smashing ears and nose, stabbing up under the chin. Anakin is not above Sidious. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. 'Want to be impressed?' … Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. Raw power is just another term for your pure power" Sorry my wording was off but I meant pure power as in Anakins potential. It was a state of mind. Soon after, he witnessed the same hooded figure assault Mace Windu with a torrent of Force lightning. Resurrection is a 48-page comic story that appeared in Star Wars Tales 9 and collected in Star Wars Tales Volume 3. mace can't handle sidious lightning like vader can, therefore is weaker in the force. This is the one you all voted to see! and this isn't the last time he'd praise Anakin so highly he considered him above Yoda during ROTS. He defended himself from getting thrown to his death and was still launched into the stanchion. Mace is also the master of Vaapad and channeling the darkness both of his enemy and within himself. Later the several sources states that Vader is more powerful than Anakin. It can’t be that same situation this is so many years later. And during this time he actually hadn't touch his lightsaber in years, for an exception of saving Luke from certain threats only a couple times, including maul, otherwise they were fodder, like sand people. Re: Mace Windu & Count Dooku Vs Darth Vader (Knightfall) on March 20th 2020, 1:35 am The OP states bloodlust is on, which means we get the no Jedi restraint Mace that fought Palpatine. Mace Windu vs Darth Vader # Mace Windu I'm surprised it's 50/50. You mean, in the subjective, fallible point of view of a single failed Jedi Padawan who left the Order years before the Empire, wasn't around for the Clone Wars and probably never saw Mace move at full speed, Vader is faster than Mace. Darth Vader: Yes. Good for Mace for landing the killer shot, but it says a lot about his inability to finish a vulnerable Vastor. DO YOU SPEAK IT? Then Kar attacks again and is incapacitated with a single punch: "He used the impact to whirl in the air so that he could fall upon the Jedi Master like a branch leopard taking a tusker. Still, it describes him as being distracted for a moment and we all know what happens to force users or anyone for that matter when distracted or with their guard down. It isn't under new canon. "besides the statement of You gotta be yoda or mace to face sidious what are other sources that put mace at the same level as palps that are backed by C canon source material?". The official Instagram page for Star Wars has recently teased the return of Samuel L. Jackson as Mace Windu in the near future. Palpatine also appears frequently in the comic book series Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith (2017–2018), written by Kieron Gillen and Charles Soule. Darth Momin, also known simply as Momin, was a male Sith Lord, dark side scholar, and sculptor. This isn't lightsaber combat lol. Those, he never relinquished, and he never felt more connected to the Force than when his fury burned. He had to move his inner peace out of the way to let in the joy. Eyes glazing, half stunned, the lor pelek slid bonelessly down the akk's armored ribs, and staggered as his feet skidded over gnarled roots.". I haven't read the novel but I've heard Mace was hindered by a injury and dark side nexus when he fought his brother. Ab. The akk dog suddenly lurched away from them, giving Vastor half a meter of clearance. And Maul has been shown many times to be infinitely above random pirates. "The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme)" is a musical theme present in the Star Wars franchise. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. The rivalry ends on Geonosis. I think it is vader just because he has a longer period of time to learn about the force. @el_mago: How does Vader "scale" above Mace exactly? And Vaders strength is a non factor if he fought a faster opponent. Pablo Hidalgo : ''This is Vader and his prime. Raw power is just another term for your pure power, aside from additional knowledge. plus he has more feats. Then he hit Vastor twice in the nose before the lor pelek could even blink. The armor separated him from the galaxy, from everyone, made him singular, freed him from the needs of the flesh, the concerns of the body that once had plagued him, and allowed him to focus solely on his relationship to the Force.''. Even if he is an 8 bordereing a 9, Pre-Suit Vader is a monster who's arguably on par with Yoda and Palpatine. Also Ahsoka has feats against Grievous and Ventress to scale to. Doesn't do nearly as much damage. As such, he commanded incredible influence over the Jedi Council and subsequently the Jedi Order itself. Darth Vader is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise. @deutschkurzhaar: Ahsoka was faster but Vader has really good defense and so it didn't matter. Kenobi, with his lightsaber, engaged a random Mandalorian who was only armed with a rifle and the guy disarmed Kenobi in close quarters. The Kar Vastor argument doesn't work when Mace had a light saber wound in his gut and was affected by a dark side nexus. Kar runs away as Mace initially continues to pummel him into oblivion before eventually allowing him to seemingly flee: "Vastor howled in pain and raging disbelief, falling back against the akk dog's flank once more, twisting and turning to try to find some way to avoid the Jedi's flashing hands. here you go again. ", "Mace used the Force to hurl him off and send him tumbling through the air to slam into the flank of an agitated akk dog. The gap in dueling isn't as great in Canon, and Vader should still be well ahead of Mace in power. Wookies are absolute units. Frankly, Sidious as of ROTS can beat both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time. every source states that Anakin was overwhelming Obi-wan throughout the fight. By the time of ROTS they are either equal or get a slight edge over the other. It is a strong advantage. every source states that Anakin was overwhelming Obi-wan throughout the fight. Voting feed. He got his hand chopped off, then tanked ROTJ sheev lightning while throwing sheev off. Mace Windu vs Darth Vader # Mace Windu Form 7 is super effective against dark siders. And even hurt, lurching drunkenly, Vastor still could whip his arms in blindingly fast raking slaps at Mace's head and wounded neck. Had Vader killed Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he might have attempted to kill Sidious, as well. When man and machine were one, he no longer felt the absence of his legs or arms, the pain of his flesh, but the hate remained, and the rage still burned. The story was written by Ron Marz, with pencils by Rick Leonardi, inks by Terry Austin, letters by Steve Dutro and colors by Raúl Treviño. "Vastor was younger, stronger, faster, and immensely more powerful... Vastor had power on the scale of... young Anakin Skywalker.". The OP never specified either so it can be assumed feats from anywhere can be drawn to make a conclusion as to who wins this. Without warning, Vastor's stalk became a lightning lunge, fingers hooked like talons, his arms sweeping wide to close on Mace once more -- but Mace wasn't there anymore. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Within the armoed forces Vader now holds absolute power over the higher Imperial officers who scorned him earlier in his career. And while Anakin might be somewhat stronger and resistant, due to being younger, the difference is too small to even the odds. That being said, it is still a Windu feat whether canon or legends. He's slower as Vader but still fast enough to keep up with everyone he's fought so far. Mace Windu: Then you know what I’m saying? Mace runs up to him, and taunts him. Nothing in that quote often used to hype Ben's growth has anything to do with combative prowess, just spiritual enlightenment and growth as a character, it doesn't preclude him being past his combative prime and being "too old for this sort of thing" by ANH. Because it's not legitimate material. The ultimate answer for power is skill. Pretty clear legends Vader is more powerful since he rivals to ROTJ Sidious, who is stated to be more powerful than ROTS Sidious by a wide margin. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. Yes, like how he totally overwhelmed Obi-Wan in their shared force push. As soon as Mace sank into Vaapad, he effortlessly stomped Vastor in their first fight. Lesson here, the good big man usually beats the good little man. "Secondly the quotes of Anakin being>>Vader refers to potential, Not actual overall power" It's actually both not just potential. Night had deepened upon the jungle, and around them glowvines began to pulse faintly. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. Obi-wan did well against Anakin because Anakin was mentally unbalance. Obi wan was wayyyyyyy out of practice.. and, well.. old. Posts about Mace Windu written by chan. You got it. This opened the C… They are on the same tier. So I guess Mace being unable to react to Sidious' initial attack, then getting driven back and held at blade point by Sidious, who for some reason decides not to stab through him equates to Mace stomping? Darth Vader #6 takes place between the events … Mace has matched a Gundark's strength and escaped from its grip in TCW which is a very impressive display of strength and force augmentation. And his lightsaber combat was a lot better as Anakin, his suit made him slow and clunky. What kind of fucking technique do you have to have over someone else in regards to this basic ability. Which was aimed at the kidneys. I'd say he wins in a good fight, though it's not a stellar contest that Mace actually could win for a majority. If Old Ben had completed Vader's transition to the dark side, then Mace Windu certainly set it in motion. dg. Samuel L. Jackson was a well-known character actor before his breakthrough with Pulp Fiction and has since become one of the most popular actors in the world. Kar attacks again, and Mace immediately intercepts his blows with physical strikes that disable Kar's arms: "Vastor fired another of those blinding slaps. 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